James Watkins: Artist & Advocate on Empowering Youth Through Music & Storytelling

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Rob Lee
Welcome to the truth in this art. Thank you for tuning into my conversations at the intersection of arts, culture and community. I am your host.

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Rob Lee
Rob Lee.

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Rob Lee
Today, I am thrilled to welcome my next guest, a dedicated advocate for social change in youth empowerment. With a background in nonprofit management and a passion for storytelling, he's been instrumental in fostering community growth, in amplifying marginalized voices throughout the DMV. Baltimore. Washington, D.C. is a Washington, DC native. Please welcome James Watkins. Welcome to the podcast.

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James Watkins
Thank you. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, isn't it? Thanks.

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Rob Lee
We're absolutely, you know, the kinship and we both ball, brother. I got the beard.

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James Watkins
You know, and we got this speak last name. Yeah.

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Rob Lee
That's that's true. You know, and and that's the thing like as we start off, like, you know, definitely trying to like highlighted and it's been a while since I've done sort of the to peel the onion back for folks to do the the introduction like straight n usually is just welcome to the podcast they and post they do all of editing and I'm like no no let's do it this way do it this way is that it's that comfort thing.

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Rob Lee
It's like you're comforting guy. Jimmy.

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James Watkins
Right? Yeah. I try to be. I try to be a people's person. That's what they tell me.

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Rob Lee
Yeah. No, the hash. This is all front. This is a facade here. Okay, so again, thank you for for making the time. And before we, you know, was name a type of dove when it comes to swimming, you know, it's like a swan dove. You know, before we swan dove into the larger questions, I want to give you the space to introduce yourself in your own words.

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Rob Lee
Obviously, there's a lot of power in it. You know, there's sort of the online joint. Sometimes they fall short, sometimes to. So for you, introduce yourself to the fine folks at audience.

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James Watkins
All right. So James Watkins, some people call me Jimmy Watts. We can get into that a little bit. Just kind of the story and the history behind that native Washingtonian born and raised in southeast D.C. was a schoolboy, always loved music, always love writing, telling stories. And that just kind of just transformed into my career. Today, I'm an arts educate, cater yeah.

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James Watkins
Just a creator and just some of my friends and call me a hip hop historian. Don't know if I will go that far. But, you know, I dabble in it.

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Rob Lee
So you dabble you dabble in the hip hop, you know, as I put the in front of hip hop, right.

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James Watkins
Because it's a lifestyle. It's a culture.

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Rob Lee
Ages befalling me. So I make everything, though, like the Facebook going back to the and thank you for that. You know, it's you know, those those are the things that, again, you know, the hip hop thing wasn't sitting there in the bios that I'm reading through the sort of like the Jimi was. I saw it at a few different places, but we'll dove into it.

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James Watkins
But.

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Rob Lee
So let's, let's go back a little bit. So, you know, obviously, you know, this podcast has a East Coast focus. It has a, you know, I don't go to other places. Does the East Coast focus, definitely Baltimore concentrate and definitely DMV. And I've been branching out into D.C. So could you share a bit about sort of your upbringing as a native Washingtonian and how that's influenced your creative path?

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James Watkins
Yeah, for sure. So like I said, I was born and raised in Southeast D.C. so I grew up in the Congress Heights neighborhood Congress Park, which is more eight for my D.C. folks. They are split time between that and Ox and Hill because my mom my mom used to work 13, 14 hour shifts. She worked two jobs. She was a single mom.

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James Watkins
So I stay in Congress Park. My grandmother my grandmother had an apartment. Everyone knew Miss Mary. She was a staple in the neighborhood. So I had a little nepotism because of it, because I was just like, don't mess with old James. They used to call me Boredom. I nickname was Voodoo. That's when I was a baby. I look like a Buddha.

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James Watkins
And I got a picture to share with you. But just growing up, I didn't. I will say in hindsight, I didn't know how unique my upbringing was. And I say that because, you know, it was just stuff like just listening to Go-Go music every night, you know, I remember just getting in the car with my mom or my grandparents.

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James Watkins
And at 9:00 there, you know, they played the last hip hop song. And then they play Go Go-Go. So every night you ended the night with a party. Just our slang, the type of food that we eat, the way we smoke, the way we interact with some of the places that we went to. I didn't know how unique it was until I started going to school.

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James Watkins
You know, in Maine and Massachusetts and meeting people all over the country. Right. And it was just so different. And they looked at me as different. You know, they made fun of my accent. They made fun of the way I dress. So some of the things that I would say and I just thought that that's how everybody spoke.

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James Watkins
I thought everyone knew about Go-Go music. I thought everyone knew about our culture. So it took me coming home to really embrace that culture because at first I kind of just took it for granted because it was just something that I just knew I grew up in. So after I graduated from college, I took more of a concerted effort to learn more about the culture and embrace it because it was just really unique for me and that kind of, you know, it spilled over into my creativity, you know.

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James Watkins
So I would have people that would say is that people that really live in DC, they just thought of it as like a works town as it works. Or people just come to D.C. to work for the government and then they go back home in Maryland, Virginia, oh, whatever they want. And I was like, No, I actually grew up in D.C. and then, you know, when I was watching just different TV shows, different movies, and everything was based in D.C., everything was the Congress space, everything was politics, you know, the House of Cards, any movie that you know is set in D.C. or has like a scene in DC, they show you the Capitol.

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James Watkins
And I was like, that was just wasn't really my experience, you know, it was at times when we do like field trips and stuff like that, but I never really spent time downtown or explored the National Mall, so we had so much culture and just so much character. I just felt like we needed to tell these stories because people didn't know that those sides exist.

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James Watkins
It existed. And once I started working with youth, you know, I really started to see how much involved DC culture was to the next generation, and it was just something that wasn't really brought to the mainstream. And that kind of inspired me to tell stories for the people, by the people that are from DC. So it's like whether it was music or TV or writing, anything like that, it was always just that DC focus because DC is a character in itself and it has been has such a rich history that I don't think a lot of people know about.

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Rob Lee
Thank you. I mean, so, so and being around, you know, within the community and kind of having this sort of I guess I'll call it a matured appreciation for it. Sometimes you leave, you come back, sometimes you see things in a different perspective. I relate in that, you know, when I was younger, when I was growing up, you know, projects East Baltimore gang, gang, gang.

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Rob Lee
Yeah. You know, we had club music, all these different things. I was like, Yo, I with none of this and this is about and you know, I didn't leave the the state, I didn't leave the city. I ended up going into Morgan And I just remember it was funny. There was a DC guy, there was one of my classes and he had like the powerful accent.

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Rob Lee
So I was like, Yeah, I'm from here, bro. Where are you from? And he would just he'd ask me, he's like, Yeah, where are you from? I don't hear accent. And I get I still get that to this day. You don't have the Baltimore accent. And so ultimately the point is he'd ask me, he's like, Yeah, where are you from?

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Rob Lee
And I was like, I'm from here. And I started just name in different parts of Baltimore. He was seen checking me as a person outside of the city, right? Yeah. And he was like, Oh, you lived in all the drug spots? And I was like, Wow, this is like certified, you know? And it's sort of a piece of it.

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Rob Lee
And I think.

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James Watkins
Going to one.

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Rob Lee
Of the things you touched on sort of the again, I'll use my own terms, the shortcutting of it all of, oh, if you're filming something in DC, you got to show to capital. It can be a stock photo of the capital. Yeah. It's just like you shot this in.

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James Watkins
Miami or where. Right.

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Rob Lee
And the same thing happens here, you know, we'll see, you know, something that looks sort of like kind of while we might see like the harbor, we might see, I don't know, maybe maybe different parts of the city. But an example would be this black meteor man.

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James Watkins
In.

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Rob Lee
Movie shot in Baltimore. It was said it was DC.

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James Watkins
And.

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Rob Lee
So that's that that's that's the thing that's the connection point right here.

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James Watkins
Yeah man. Yeah. I just didn't see any of, you know, like I say, early on we would go to the museums for field trips, we would go, you know, visit the National Mall. But, you know, those things weren't really impressive to us, you know, growing up east to the river, you know, those things. We see it every day.

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James Watkins
You know, I literally see the capital every day. So when my friends from college and when they come down and visit, they'll be like, Oh my God, we got to see what's going on downtown. Or, Oh, they'll see the monument to my girlfriend. You know, she's from Virginia. So when she comes to visit, she'll be like, Oh my God, this is so cool to my mentally.

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James Watkins
Yeah, sure. You know, and and goes into, you know, taking it for granted. Not because you don't appreciate it, not because you don't think is cool or it is significant anyway. It's just you so accustomed to it. You used to it, you know, and it took me to travel a little bit for school to realize, Oh no, I'm actually from a special place and I need to start acting like it, right?

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Rob Lee
So yeah, give the places flowers and I'll say and doing these interviews, being able to appreciate the different pockets of Baltimore, even in a much bigger way. Like I've, you know, as an adult, I get, you know, bad of an adversarial and very protective of Baltimore. And I'm looking for pieces of that from really like there's a deeper story.

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Rob Lee
So, you know, when I go to when I go to Philly, when I go to D.C., it's sort of that. And I think in some ways that's how I mean, you got connected and sort of fostered that. I was like, All right, this is a real D.C. dude is not like, yeah, I moved in from California and go Nats or something.

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Rob Lee
You're just like, now I say, Oh yeah, I hit accent.

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James Watkins
You know, tell you about.

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Rob Lee
Appreciate it, appreciate it. So I got this this next question because I want to talk a bit more about sort of your career and in these areas that are of passion and super interests for you, we have I see Queen Bees, it sounds like, you know, amazing, amazing. Where we talked about it briefly when we met up in person and I saw, you know, a bit of the work in the research that I did.

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Rob Lee
Can you share or like sort of, you know, what that was about? And as he fostering creativity, empowering like young girls to speak on out of bed, is there like any interesting story that really illustrates that work?

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James Watkins
Yeah, for sure. So I want to backtrack a little bit. So how I got started working with youth. I went to college and I went to college in Maine. So if you want to talk about that, we can. But I spent four years in Maine shout out to Bates College. I know a couple of my fellow Bates as well.

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James Watkins
Listen to this. I did music. I did radio for two and a half years. I also DJ parties and I had my own music. I was a credit behind my scene. I had rarely failed a class, but I had failed this one class my freshman year. So I was a behind in my senior. I did my senior thesis on the generational thread between the black arts movement, the hip hop.

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James Watkins
And I argue that hip hop had a social responsibility to foster change. Chuck D had this quote That hip hop is the scene in Of the Ghetto. So when I had approached it, the concepts of my thesis advisor, he was like, You have to do this. And he was an older Watts man and he was excited about it.

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James Watkins
So he started telling me about the black arts movement and different artists to look into. And I'm sure him different artists like rap artists and socially conscious music. So we did that. I did my last semester. He said, Well, James, I know you're a credit behind. How about you do independent study and you teach essentially your senior thesis to kids in Lewiston and Lewiston, Maine?

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James Watkins
My first reaction was, No, I hate kids. I work with. Well, yeah, I was like, No, absolutely not. And he was just like, So you're not going to graduate on time, but because you don't like working with kids? And I was like, All right, I'll do it. So I did it. And it it transformed me like, I hate cliches, but it really did transform me to the point where when I graduated a couple of those kids actually showed up to my graduation and they were on the side cheering me on.

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James Watkins
And one girl drew me a picture that I still have to this day. Mind you, I graduated in 2012. I still have it. And when I went home I said, I have to do something. If I had such impacts on these kids who I don't think I didn't think at the time share any relation with me. You know, it was a mix of Somali kids and also white kids.

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James Watkins
And I had a parent, a white parent come to me and say I had to meet this Jimi guy in person because every Monday my daughter is talking about Jimi, Jimi, Jimi, who is Jimi? Yeah. So that whole magic just I have to do this and work with kids. And I was, you know, bounced from job to job for about three years.

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James Watkins
And then I finally found an organization and I was working on a Queen Bees, which was a music program. And it was kind of a start. It was it was totally different from what the programs the organization had going on at that time. They had environmental programs and things of that nature. So just to do a musical hip hop program and it didn't fit, but it was right up my alley because that was something I did.

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James Watkins
I was working on my own music. I mean, the girls just clicked, you know, they write their own music. I come in with the B, I come up with the concepts. So I might come up with like a hook idea. And then they do their workshops and write the lyrics themselves. We go to a professional recording studio, they knock out the song and then take their song.

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James Watkins
Go to my engineer, we'll mix the song, send it to the girls they super excited and then we shoot a music video for it. So they talked about issues such as domestic violence, suicide prevention, financial literacy, A.I., drugs, gun violence. We did that for about four years. And one of the stories that really resonated with me, one of my kids, I call them my girls like to this day, they steal my kids.

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James Watkins
And a lot of them are grown. Now, one of them is like 25. So the oldest I think is 27. I've been working with her since she was like, I don't know, 16. Yeah, but one of my students was going to a mental health crisis over, over the summer, and it had got to the point where I was really worried about her.

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James Watkins
And that was the first time I had met her mom and I had sat her mom down and I was really cool with the family and we talked about just ways that we could help her. And I remember one day we were in the office and I asked her, you know, what do you think about doing a song about suicide prevention?

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James Watkins
And I'll never forget, I went to the studio, quarter over to the studio to mix another song, and they did and me and the Uber driver, we were just talking and she revealed that her dad had died from suicide and that right there was like, okay, that's the song that we need to do. So I had broached a topic.

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James Watkins
Citigroup told them what we were going to do. A couple of them was a little resistant to. They didn't share that experience. But for two older girls in a group who kind of struggle with mental health a little bit, they were open to doing it. They just didn't know how to express themselves and how to, you know, talk about encouraging things, you know, for people that are dealing with that.

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James Watkins
And we just had a lot of honest conversations and, you know, workshops and when it came time to write in the song, they knocked it out of the ballpark. They killed it. It's called Lifeguard if anyone is interested in looking it up. And I remember we filmed that video at Great Falls Park in Virginia and they were calling for rain like 60% rain.

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James Watkins
And I was just like, Dad, you're going to rain on a video shoot outside as well. I hate doing videos outside. And it it never rained, but it was cloudy the whole day. So if you look at the video, it's cloudy. And we shot that video like nine in the morning. So it fit the theme, you know, I'm not drowning, but I can be your lifeguard.

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James Watkins
You know, those are some of the lyrics. And it was just a perfect day. And that that song, one of the girls came back to me and said, When I'm down and I'm feeling depressed, I go back to that song. And the truth of the matter is, I do it, too. I did it. I'm struggling with my mental health and I really regularly play that song to get me out of a slump.

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James Watkins
So it just speaks to the power of music. And these are teenage girls that are doing that, you know? So that's probably like my my biggest highlight working with them.

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Rob Lee
Well, thank you. And we'll add the song to the show notes the call. Absolutely. And thank you. You that's you know, it's like having that trajectory and then having that sort of an impact on folks lives and, you know, kind of growing up in some ways with them. I used my yeah, yeah. It's like that's not too far off of your age.

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Rob Lee
Bye, guys. So let's say.

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James Watkins
Yeah, yeah.

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Rob Lee
And yeah and you know, having a sort of same experience. Well, as far as coming into it as a man like kids. Kids, why? And now kind of doing it and I'll say like, you know, it's been a few times but I've been caught saying like, man, so my kids, right? And it's like, oh.

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James Watkins
You and I.

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Rob Lee
You know, we we have to change the way we have these conversations about about topics I gave I gave the students a prompt. I say, you know, here's any topic you guys want to talk about. Really idea don't think about it for like the first 20 minutes, we're going to go down to the studio record and the topics were in that vein of sort of mental health, sort of abortion was it was a topic, you know, and even like consent or topics.

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Rob Lee
And, you know, I start thinking about, you know, when I was probably their age or their 17 and and thinking like, all right, to what degree were we talking about this, let alone in this sort of capacity and this sort of informed Wade? I mean, like, this is all folks minds bit more mature and having dialogs around it.

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Rob Lee
And, you know, it was cool and it was it was done in a sort of fictional way of your interviewing someone from, let's say, Planned Parenthood, for instance, and then have like a cogent conversation around it. I was like, these kids are deep and I'll say this before moving to this next question. The thing that clicks is when you know you're up there, you're not sure if it's working.

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Rob Lee
You try to give strategy. You try to give like direction, and you see that light bulb go off. Yeah, like, oh, that is delicious.

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James Watkins
Yeah.

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Rob Lee
Like, it's like, you know, flats and drums and mambo certain to say.

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James Watkins
Yeah, you know, I'll say this real quick. And then on to the next topic. You know, that was the thing for me. We were never trying to create the next pop sensation. We were never trying to exploit their talent. We weren't even looking for students who necessarily had talent, so to speak, or wanted to rap. It was just creative expression.

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James Watkins
Your voice matters. You have a story to tell, and when you frame it like that and say, Just speak from the heart, we'll worry about the how to how to, you know, count a bar in a metronome and how to say things like, that's all in a rat technical stuff. Let me worry about that. Just say what's on your heart and then come together.

00;20;41;19 - 00;20;58;02
James Watkins
We collaborate and we make something, especially when it's something that the kids can take ownership in. I never look at it like, Oh, you know, this is a win for me, or This is a win for the organization, or this is a win for the kids because these kids will forget my name before they ever forget that experience.

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Rob Lee
100%.

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James Watkins
So that's what matters to me.

00;21;02;16 - 00;21;18;14
Rob Lee
So it's the reps too, you know, like when, you know, I talk to my students and I definitely relate in it, it's just like, yeah, I'm just some guy that you see here doing this class and so on. And I was I'm part of your day. I'm a small part of your week, but a small in an even in even a small part of your day.

00;21;18;14 - 00;21;38;17
Rob Lee
But, you know, ultimately, I'm trying to transcend the idea of I'm showing you how to record a catch. There's not much to it or what have you. There is an artistry to it, but there's not much to the actual doing that piece. And I was like, What I'm trying to get across to you all is articulating your ideas, sharing your ideas.

00;21;38;19 - 00;21;54;12
Rob Lee
This is a way of doing. And I was like, you know, you guys are going in a film, you're going in the theater, you're not going into this. This is actually an avenue. But look at me like the person that's going to fund your project and look at my person as a potential collaborator, and that's when those bulbs start going off.

00;21;54;12 - 00;22;03;17
Rob Lee
It's like, Oh, these are crossover skills, these are transferable skills. And to your point, I don't look at it as a win for the for smoke Daddy. Rob That's what I call myself.

00;22;03;29 - 00;22;05;03
James Watkins
And that's.

00;22;05;05 - 00;22;09;07
Rob Lee
Actually oh my, my, go to my, my badge. It works as a smoke. Smoke, Daddy. Rob Lee.

00;22;09;18 - 00;22;31;15
James Watkins
Oh, can I say this real quick? And we got to switch topic because I can talk about this for hours on end, but I was just thinking about another quick story. If I had I had a student, she she was like ten at this point. We had a women's conference and the girls were invited. And essentially, like the kids do workshops throughout the day and they can facilitate the workshops.

00;22;31;15 - 00;22;52;21
James Watkins
So our students was they excuse me, they were facilitators, many studio sessions. So people would come into the room and they would record a song on Aspire One of my kids venture dolls met two ladies from another organization. She walks back into the room with them and they wearing blazers and they look like they had bought a business.

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James Watkins
I'm thinking she's in trouble. Something like, What are you doing? And she was like, Mr. Jimmy, I wanted to introduce you to these people. And it was like, you know, she had great things to say about you. We just wanted to exchange our business information and give you our business card. Make a long story short, she was the reason why I ended up traveling to Nebraska and Cincinnati to do workshops for students at their schools.

00;23;14;22 - 00;23;34;02
James Watkins
So I ended up traveling to Nebraska, and then a week after that I went to Cincinnati, did a three day workshop. First day you work with the students to make up the song, the second day you record the song, and the third day you filmed a video. And one of those videos actually was premiered the following year at the South by Southwest Education Conference.

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James Watkins
So that would have never happened without my ten year old student, and she probably doesn't even know the impact that she had. I travel because of her.

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Rob Lee
That's dope. Is dope with the way those connections happen. And yeah, it's you know, there's this question on occasion about those chance occurrences and that's an example of one that, you know, I wasn't expecting that, oh, wow, I'm in Nebraska, I'm in Cincinnati. And it's chilly. It's mediocre, chilly, you know, shots, you know, go ravens. I don't have to tell you.

00;24;01;23 - 00;24;36;21
Rob Lee
All right. So I want to switch gears a little bit. And I think, you know, so there are all these these different things that kind of guide and drive us in the directions that we're going to pursue, whether it be professional, whether it be creative. And then there's always that sweet spot when we intersect. So those three fundamental truths, truth in this art, three fundamental truths that have guided you throughout your journey like, you know, whether it be from your advocacy work or nonprofit work or your artistic endeavors, what are those three things that have to be true for you to move forward?

00;24;37;28 - 00;25;09;27
James Watkins
I think the first thing is integrity. You know, you want to do things for the right reasons. I've passed on opportunities when I felt like it was exploiting children or exploiting child trauma or black trauma. So just have an integrity in which you do ownership. It's really big for me, making sure that the people that I work with, even at my current job, that they know that this is about them.

00;25;10;15 - 00;25;33;24
James Watkins
You know, I work for a grantmaking organization now and we do public programing, so I'm not working with you at the moment, but it's like you working with adults that are doing work in the humanities. We're saying like, no, these are no events, we're just here to support. We want you to feel like this is a celebration or a platform for you to shed all of the work that you've been doing, you know, for whatever topic it is that you research.

00;25;33;24 - 00;25;55;08
James Watkins
And so I definitely would say just ownership is really big for me. And another one, my mom always told me that if you don't do something from the heart, then don't do it at all. You know, when you do something from the heart, you go above and beyond. And I was one of the very first jobs I had post-college.

00;25;56;03 - 00;26;25;27
James Watkins
This man gave me a book. He was impressed with me. To this day, I still don't know what I said or did. We have to take a liking to me. But he asked for my address and then he sent me a book. In the mail is a step garden called Linchpin. It's about going above and beyond in the workplace, and it's always resonated with me because one of the crucial elements in that book was you go above and beyond, not because you want personal satisfaction from it, but you do it because you want the organization or you want the project to really thrive.

00;26;26;11 - 00;26;45;14
James Watkins
You know, in a linchpin, it's nothing more than just this small little gear in a machine that you don't know it there, but once you remove it, the whole thing falls apart. So when I had took that approach and adapted that ideology into my work, I got a lot of opportunities from it, which enabled me to to do great work in the city.

00;26;45;17 - 00;26;49;24
James Watkins
So I think those are the three three truths that I stand by. That's great.

00;26;50;26 - 00;27;11;07
Rob Lee
That's amazing. And the linchpin thing, I definitely will check that out because, you know, I'm definitely I'm definitely one of those guys who, like, I'm looking for the system way of doing things. How can I optimize it? But my thing is and I came to this realization years and years and years ago, and it's not a word I think it's not a word I wanted to be in expendable.

00;27;12;14 - 00;27;32;14
Rob Lee
It's like I want, you know. Yeah. And whether it's like, yo, I need to make this thing so specific to how I do it that they need me to train the next person that's going to replace me that very much sort of my process and knowing what works and being able to explain it and all of that stuff because you want to get across train to help folks.

00;27;32;27 - 00;27;58;28
Rob Lee
But you know when you ever run into someone and I would imagine you're kind of that that person, you're run as someone that's just so good at their job and they're not like, you know, I just like doing what I do and I'm doing it very well. It rubs off. It's like when you're on a team, you know, Yeah, all right, this dude is in the gym, extra hours, and I'm over here in the cheesesteak line or whatever, and it's like, no, you should go and put up some shots.

00;27;58;28 - 00;28;00;20
Rob Lee
You get that cheesesteak, but you should put some chopped.

00;28;00;20 - 00;28;02;09
James Watkins
To put up your abs.

00;28;02;18 - 00;28;18;04
Rob Lee
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we it's a balance to where, you know, I do a lot in doing this, doing a lot of interviews and having to figure out like, all right, what's the governor and I need to have a self imposed governor.

00;28;19;07 - 00;28;19;16
James Watkins
Right.

00;28;20;03 - 00;28;37;02
Rob Lee
Shouldn't be doing 300 episodes a year. Should probably do considerably less. And but but but then when people ask me why do you do that? Almost like it's a negative, I was like, because I enjoy it, because I enjoy what I do creatively. I enjoy my work. And I think it's doing I hope it's doing some some good.

00;28;37;02 - 00;29;04;00
Rob Lee
And those to me are important. Those are to me align with my values. And we we're always looking for especially, I think now ways to do less. It's not even work smarter. It's just like work less and it's just like, yeah, who you can still find ways, creative ways, you know, I think that's the thing because like all creative folks, I think are problem solvers.

00;29;04;17 - 00;29;12;13
Rob Lee
Yeah, I think what the problem is like, look, I got 10 hours of work and I got 7 hours to do it creatively. How am I going to make this problem work out?

00;29;12;23 - 00;29;13;07
James Watkins
Yeah.

00;29;14;05 - 00;29;21;28
Rob Lee
So with that, that is a it is a ham fisted segway into this next question. So peeling the onion back.

00;29;22;09 - 00;29;23;14
James Watkins
What secret trade.

00;29;23;26 - 00;29;33;28
Rob Lee
Or what secret or trade do you believe that most creative people share that contributes to the ability to innovate, to inspire, to, you know, to make their to make their creative work.

00;29;34;26 - 00;30;09;01
James Watkins
I think all creatives are a little bit off going like I do. I think we're all a little crazy, you know, and we have a little Type A, you know, it's we have such a unique process in creating just be open to being inspired I think is how creatives really excel when they don't shut their minds off to anything that they're not really familiar with or accustomed to.

00;30;09;02 - 00;30;31;25
James Watkins
You know, one of the things that I learned early when I was working with an engineer is a lot of the stuff that I was writing, it was sounding like early Jay Code or early Kendrick because I was, you know, what they call came out. He was talking about college and I was in college and I just resonated with that and I was like, finally, somebody can speak to my experience, you know?

00;30;31;25 - 00;30;51;03
James Watkins
So I thought I was. Jay Cool. And then when it came out, I was like, Oh man, I'm like him too. One of my my engineer at the time asked me, he said, When you try to get inspired, you listen to what do you listen to? What? And he was like, now you need to try listening to stuff that you're not trying to create.

00;30;51;18 - 00;31;18;12
James Watkins
So he put me on to like different alternative rock I never forget. He put me on this group called Aqualung and I just thought the name was just fire. And he played some of the music and I was like, Oh, this is actually dope. And I like it. So it's, you know, it was just being open to listening to different things that I wasn't necessarily trying to create, so that when I go back into that creative space, I feel like this refreshed energy.

00;31;18;12 - 00;31;43;14
James Watkins
I'm not having writer's block anymore because I'm not trying to create the next Jay Cole song, you know? So I think we all just kind of a little off and I mean, in the most endearing way because it's just like creative process. I'm also interested in like when I look at all of these great people that's created by people that I admire, you know, the Isa race to Shonda Rhimes, to Jay-Z's, to Kendrick Lamar's, The Grammys.

00;31;43;14 - 00;32;08;20
James Watkins
I'm a huge fan. I think about I'm also interested in learning about the creative process and creating and securing or creating the blueprint more so than the actual product itself. Because I know it's interesting, you know, how they shoot like the behind the scenes video was like the goal of this album was to make another show. I watch that all the time because it's just weird.

00;32;09;01 - 00;32;31;00
Rob Lee
I'll tell you this, like one of the things I always as a as a straight male guy of the time frame in which I grew up, I was like annoyed by Beyonce for a while. I was like to the left, How dare you? I'm not going anywhere without my energy for a long time. And but I've always respected and respected the hustle, respected artistry, respected the business and all of that stuff.

00;32;31;13 - 00;32;50;27
Rob Lee
And I flipped it. This is the thing that my girl called it. My partner calls it a contrarian spiral. She's like, I like you like have a real specific take on a person. And then they do something that you really admire and you're like, I'll die for them. They're amazing. It happened when I went to see A Star Is Born, the Bradley Cooper one.

00;32;51;01 - 00;33;08;08
Rob Lee
That's where she pointed it out. She's like, So hold on, you don't like Bradley Cooper, but you are him from Silver Linings Playbook. I was like, Go on. And she was like, And you went to the premiere of the movie that he directed songs and you had a thug tier when his character piece is out.

00;33;08;20 - 00;33;08;29
James Watkins
Yeah.

00;33;09;09 - 00;33;33;27
Rob Lee
Like I let's let's not even talk about this so to say but Beyonce and in more so because you know it was one to see you know renaissance last year and you know we went out of town for it 1 to 1 to Detroit for it. And I was gobsmacked. I was in obvs like, I know this is going to be a lit show and I was going to be a fire show and I was I am going to be fine is going to be a few things.

00;33;33;27 - 00;33;45;11
Rob Lee
I was like, No, I'm, I'm here for all of it. The whole thing just worked super effectively. And I was like, That's a show. Everything else is on. Everything else is the numerator for that being the denominator.

00;33;45;22 - 00;33;46;25
James Watkins
She says. And I.

00;33;47;04 - 00;33;48;13
Rob Lee
And in with.

00;33;48;13 - 00;33;48;19
James Watkins
It.

00;33;49;02 - 00;34;05;01
Rob Lee
This is the thing that ties in with what you were saying, the sort of the behind the scenes, the thinking. So you remember in a concert when they're showing like sort of the like the screen in the background, all of this different stuff that's happening. Like they shot a movie. I was like, I want to see that that's interesting what was happening in those conversations, right?

00;34;05;16 - 00;34;25;18
Rob Lee
And that's what I try to point at at times and, you know, sometimes that sometimes are better than others. But I try to point out and these podcasts, you talk to people who do work and, you know, as creative work or the like. And I was like, I care about the process. You've talked about the process before. I want to know the thinking that goes into you, the mindset that you're in.

00;34;26;02 - 00;34;49;00
James Watkins
Right? Yeah. Real quick, back to Queen Bees. I got a lot of Queen Bee story, so we had there was a song that we did about the female Right to Vote. Yeah. And it was called Clark Kent. The hook is it was encouraging people to vote. It was like, I come out the booth. I feel like Superman's boosh now.

00;34;49;01 - 00;35;10;29
James Watkins
Mind you, I did not come up with the woosh. I had this, I had this concept and I was playing it for I had wrote this concept for one of the girls who raps was like really fast. She missed session, so I gave it to somebody else and they were in the back seat and we on our way to the studio and I'm signing for them and I'm always nervous because if it's one thing about these kids, they are super honest.

00;35;10;29 - 00;35;32;10
James Watkins
Like if it's trash, they go say, Jimmy, that's mariachi. Like they won't say it. So I'm like nervous like reciting this, but it's 13 year old. And when I say and I come at the booth for, like, Superman and she's in the back, she's saying woosh, yeah, keep that. When you get to the studio, you're going to say that she was like, Really?

00;35;32;10 - 00;35;46;18
James Watkins
I'm just playing. And that was the best part of the song and how I even came up with that concept. The person who was writing Queen Bees at the time, she kept saying, Jamie, do you have a hook? Do you have a hook? And I'm like, Yeah, I got it. I'll come. I come out with it. And I never had a hook.

00;35;46;26 - 00;36;08;23
James Watkins
So like the Friday before the studio session, I spent all day watching Marvel movies, and at the time I was eight, at the time I wasn't a marvel fan. I am now, but at the time I was just why it was like a marathon. So I'm just watching it. And then something was like, What if I use Superman as a metaphor, even though Superman is DC?

00;36;08;23 - 00;36;25;28
James Watkins
Yeah, that's how we came up. I think I was watching the Captain America movie and then the concept just hit me. So that morning, going to the studio, I had wrote it real fast and then I met up with the girls and we set it and that became like a huge record. Like, the girls love that song and I love it, too.

00;36;25;28 - 00;36;29;17
James Watkins
And it was just, you know, watching Marvel. I mean, also.

00;36;29;24 - 00;36;38;10
Rob Lee
It has that collaborative, collaborative thing that's that's in it. Like, I like when, you know, you just kind of see just people, like, kind of messing around a little bit, like.

00;36;38;11 - 00;36;38;29
James Watkins
Yeah, you.

00;36;39;01 - 00;36;51;02
Rob Lee
Know, when we talk about like someone's like first time we even mentioned like, you know, the blueprint, the blueprint, what have you. And you remember that song? Maybe it's not a blueprint too, but I'm forgetting which one it's on. But the song call it the bounce.

00;36;51;19 - 00;36;53;19
James Watkins
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it did.

00;36;53;20 - 00;36;55;02
Rob Lee
You don't know that's him. And I'm like.

00;36;55;18 - 00;36;56;23
James Watkins
Yo, who's this.

00;36;56;29 - 00;36;57;20
Rob Lee
Dude out here?

00;36;58;02 - 00;36;59;12
James Watkins
Or I remember.

00;36;59;12 - 00;37;20;10
Rob Lee
At one point when I was briefly rapping in by briefly about six years, we were talking about a different and I remember, I remember I was like just in the in the crib, just messing around and my friends sitting, observing me, like, do my thing. And I did this, like, freestyle, and she was like, that's, that's pretty tight.

00;37;20;20 - 00;37;36;13
Rob Lee
And we get to do on a second thing. And I was like, Yo, I just want you to see this when I see this. And it's just like this sort of is not the back and forth, but it's almost like that part. And I was at the 50 cent song. It's like, like it's like he says to Yo, yo, yo, I got this.

00;37;36;28 - 00;37;38;13
James Watkins
Oh yeah, maybe need some.

00;37;38;13 - 00;37;40;02
Rob Lee
Help to alleviate yo, I got this.

00;37;40;03 - 00;37;43;21
James Watkins
And that is, it's great. And it just is just like.

00;37;44;03 - 00;37;54;20
Rob Lee
It's just something that's I don't know, it's just something that you can magnify, like, oh, they just mess around the studio now, putting together this heat versus this sort of form. Yo, I don't know. It's just something about it.

00;37;55;05 - 00;38;15;27
James Watkins
Naomi You know, Rihanna is just energy, and that's what I think. Going back to your question about what is that secret trace that most, if not all creative share, it's just they know what works right it and it can be like the most off the wall reference or thing that happens and it's just like, oh no, I can use that.

00;38;15;27 - 00;38;41;18
James Watkins
I feel like every creator walks through life on a daily basis, thinking about, you know, each interaction that they have, they have like this no sexual way. It's like that just happened after you get a script. Oh, you said that that would be a dialog line in script, but that's a dope bar. Let me add that. It's just you're always open to creativity, even when it's you always working, even when you're not actively working out.

00;38;41;25 - 00;39;03;20
Rob Lee
Go this one thing at you. Before I move to this next question and it relates to DC, I was down, I was there last week. Last week I was being a good partner. I was buying Jamaican food and you probably know where I was buying it from. And a rhyme hit me and I wrote down and is I don't know if it's a triple entendre or what, but I was like my four words.

00;39;03;20 - 00;39;07;22
Rob Lee
That's four words of how to move forward. And I said.

00;39;08;24 - 00;39;12;09
James Watkins
It for, Oh my God, that's why I am a nerd.

00;39;13;11 - 00;39;18;16
Rob Lee
But I was like, I got to write that down. I got my beef patties in my hand. I was like, Hey, drop these. But I've got to write this down.

00;39;19;05 - 00;39;20;13
James Watkins
And write that down for you.

00;39;21;04 - 00;39;28;05
Rob Lee
And I sent it to my girl, who's an English major. She's like your nerd. She's like, This is fine. Sure, nerd, as I appreciate.

00;39;28;05 - 00;39;29;27
James Watkins
You. You sure? Sure.

00;39;30;13 - 00;39;53;12
Rob Lee
So in the same vein of where we're we're kind of talking we're all very serious about what we do. We're all very busy. Like, you know, when folks belong in back a little bit early, that's what we do here when, you know, I do these interviews and when folks are like, Oh, yeah, bro, you know, so I'm I'm so busy and then they never reschedule.

00;39;53;12 - 00;40;19;07
Rob Lee
It's just like, yeah, cool. I'm busy, we're fine. But we're all busy, all serious about what we do. But when we were younger, the stakes were lower, the stakes were different. So I think it's something about being able to reconnect, to play. How do you feel about that idea and how do you execute that of going back to feeling like something this play, feeling like those those stakes are a bit lower, a bit different specifically in your creative work.

00;40;19;24 - 00;40;47;16
James Watkins
Yeah. So I know for I know professionally we do about this thing at different jobs called happy work day. Yeah. You a staff member picks an activity once a month for the organization to do and we do it as a group, have fun. And then next month, you know, you know, wash, rinse, repeat, just a different activity. I did it around like three different jobs I've had, but it wasn't my idea.

00;40;47;16 - 00;41;19;05
James Watkins
I got it from a colleague of mine back in 2015 and it was just small gestures, right? It was just something like really small. And then I took over and we started doing hot wings challenges and all types of stuff, sending people to the, you know, the E.R. So we don't have to talk about that. But that's one way I make work, too, like, but also the type of job that I have, you know, doing programing I have with the reason a creative license to put them together.

00;41;19;05 - 00;41;46;14
James Watkins
So I can't use my creativity to make something work. So while it is routine in the sense that every month I'm doing a different program, it can look different each time. So I don't feel like it's routine and I don't feel restricted. And using my creativity to make something work. As far as personally, how do I make my work feel like play or make it fun?

00;41;47;28 - 00;42;08;01
James Watkins
I just, I don't know, I, I just, just going back to that being open for, for different forms of inspiration when I start it. I know we're going to talk about screenwriting in a bit, but when I started getting into screenwriting at the time, I only watched to shows Mark and Game of Thrones. That was it.

00;42;08;15 - 00;42;10;27
Rob Lee
Was a while. That's a wide spectrum.

00;42;11;10 - 00;42;33;29
James Watkins
A wide spectrum. Right. Up, up, up, up on the wall. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm watching Ma and then after that, I'm going to the nice watch with my man John. So I'm sitting there and I'm just like, okay, I need to expand my palate a little bit. And I took this online masterclass that Shonda Rhimes did, and her very first homework assignment was, You have to know your TV.

00;42;33;29 - 00;42;51;29
James Watkins
So right before the pandemic started, I was just like, Yeah, I'm just going to watch all of the shows that I feel like I need to watch. And I generated so many different ideas that helped me with my creative projects just watching these shows, even if it's something that so now I just pick stuff that I know I'm not trying to write.

00;42;51;29 - 00;43;15;25
James Watkins
It goes back to that music conversation of I'm listening to alternative rock to make hip hop. I'm watching psychological thrillers, I'm watching romantic dramas, I'm watching pieces, I'm watching all types of stuff that I might not necessarily be trying to create. I just want to learn how these writers do it. And every day I find something different, and that is such a rewarding experience.

00;43;16;03 - 00;43;25;10
James Watkins
So that keeps me going. So that's how I make it fun. So it doesn't feel like work, like the day that it feels my work. I don't know if I want to do it anymore.

00;43;25;28 - 00;43;41;19
Rob Lee
So I want to insert this one thing in there because it ties to it. And I mean, you already keyed into a part of the script, screenwriting and even the the playwriting side of things. So I definitely want to dove in there for further. So we'll put a pin in it for a second. Two things I wanted to mention this earlier.

00;43;41;19 - 00;43;52;19
Rob Lee
I remember listening to currency. I really like currency and as I remember, he was just like, I ride my winter wraps in June and.

00;43;52;19 - 00;43;55;06
James Watkins
I like that and I know.

00;43;55;14 - 00;44;11;15
Rob Lee
I know personally, you know, audio nerd, radio nerd and all of that stuff. I would not listen to radio here like in the region. I would listen to California radio, I would listen to crack all the time. And it's just a departure to your point. It's like, I'm not trying to.

00;44;11;15 - 00;44;12;05
James Watkins
Do.

00;44;12;13 - 00;44;13;22
Rob Lee
I'm already this guy.

00;44;13;26 - 00;44;14;13
James Watkins
From here.

00;44;15;10 - 00;44;36;12
Rob Lee
That that thing is going to be like I said, people ask me all the time, Where are you from, bro? And as soon as they say me, hear me say to you from Baltimore and you know who. But for the most part, sort of the sensibility, the application, how they go about things, that's what I'm interested in. And that rabbit hole, if you will, is in a sense how I discovered some of my early equipment in podcasting.

00;44;36;24 - 00;44;48;08
Rob Lee
It was me listening to Kevin Smith and he had mentioned he was using a fast track pro. And I got to Kevin Smith by listening to Chi-Raq. I got to K Rock by listening to the sports junkies in DC.

00;44;48;19 - 00;44;48;29
James Watkins
Yeah.

00;44;49;10 - 00;45;09;09
Rob Lee
That was the through line. That was the connection point to get get to that. Now at 29 when you know, I started podcasting and doing this, I don't know if anybody was here that was doing I don't know if anyone in HQ was doing it to that degree or what have you. It's not necessarily gatekeeping and it's just like, we're not talking about this.

00;45;09;21 - 00;45;15;25
Rob Lee
So that market was a bit bigger in a different coast and I wouldn't discovered it if I wasn't like having my ears open.

00;45;16;15 - 00;45;44;02
James Watkins
Right? Right. Yeah. I listen, you know, I start to listen to podcasts. It's probably around three or four years ago, like on a consistent basis. And like now I listen to podcasts of different shows and I'm watching and I actually go to sleep listening to podcasts. I listen to the Breaking Bad podcast. So every night when I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming about Mets and and it's like that listening to Heisenberg.

00;45;44;02 - 00;45;57;27
James Watkins
So yeah, it's my mind is just always being creative. I know my therapist tell me I need to like slow down a little bit and just go to sleep in peace. I shut my brain off, but it's just so much information to absorb and it's fun for me. It really is.

00;45;58;18 - 00;46;20;13
Rob Lee
I got another question now, another another Rapidfire question I'm going to add. But let's talk a bit about cause I got sort of two more real questions. Let's talk about storytelling a bit more and specifically how you approach and you've touched on it, but how you approach screenwriting, playwriting, like how did you get to that stage? Like it became that area of interest.

00;46;20;21 - 00;46;22;21
Rob Lee
And for you, what makes a good story?

00;46;23;10 - 00;46;51;12
James Watkins
Yeah, so it started and it really started in my senior year of college when I had wrote the script. I wrote this script every year. We did this thing called Sankofa, which highlights the the black diaspora, and we did it for MLK, MLK Day. You know, our first couple of years on campus, it used to just be talent shows and stuff like that and, you know, just watching, you know, white people playing a harmonica or something crazy.

00;46;51;12 - 00;47;08;26
James Watkins
And it's just like, what does this have to do with Martin Luther King and my classmates? They were actually a year below me. She was like, We need to come up with Sankofa. And I remember her writing on the board, This is what I plan on doing. So the first year that they did it, it was my 11th grade, my life, my junior year, college.

00;47;08;26 - 00;47;27;24
James Watkins
I did a poem for them and then senior year I ended up writing a script for it, and that's when I caught that book. So when I first graduated from college, I said, Yo, I'm writing a TV show. And I remember I had this concept, I'm working on it, and it was too much like marketing because again, that's all I was watching.

00;47;27;24 - 00;47;50;29
James Watkins
So I put it down and I said, You know what? I'll just live life and then see if something hits me, but I'm not going to try to force it. And around 2017, 2018, I just started living a certain experience. I was really struggling with my mental health, I was really depressed, but it was a lot of things that was going on in my life that I felt I would have desire if it was a TV show.

00;47;51;12 - 00;48;12;19
James Watkins
But I was like, I'm actually living this. So I just had the idea to write this show and when the pandemic hit, you know, when a shutdown started, that was my sign. Say, you know what? I'm going to take you seriously and I'm going to go all in because my job was uncertain. My security was uncertain. Then I just got tired of working for 9 to 5 and feeling like I had job security.

00;48;12;19 - 00;48;40;22
James Watkins
And then when something traumatic happens, it's like, well, actually, you know, we we value you, but not enough to keep you. So that's when I started taking screenwriting seriously. So, you know, I took the masterclass, started watching a bunch of TV and just developing my concept. And in 2022, I paid for it, pitched it for my concept, and in 2023, I paid for another pitch deck for a second concept I was working on.

00;48;41;14 - 00;48;56;10
James Watkins
And I just finished. I pitched out well, at least I thought I finished it two weeks ago and then a person who I'm working with to help me with it, he gave me some notes and stuff. So me being a perfectionist, I'm a go back and work on it. But yeah, that's how I got into it. And what's the second part of your question.

00;48;56;29 - 00;49;01;07
Rob Lee
Just in your estimation, what are the elements of a good story.

00;49;02;00 - 00;49;33;18
James Watkins
Something that's character driven? You know, we invest in characters. You know, I feel like every story has like a unique or a good story is either unique or is something that is a universal topic that a mass audience could relate to or is a combination of the two and the biggest thing for me of how I decide which show to watch or to invest in is can I invest in a characters?

00;49;33;26 - 00;49;58;15
James Watkins
Can I trust your character? And that in a sense they have to do the right thing. But if they are, can we curse? And if they're a piece of shit, I need to know why they're a piece of shit and I need to know I need to trust it. Their actions is a true reflection of their character, regardless of whether they are a hero, a villain, you know.

00;49;58;15 - 00;50;20;09
James Watkins
And in the middle, it just has to make sense. And I I'll tell you the story. When I was a sophomore in college and I was writing a creative project, it was like a 50 page story. I had just finished watching a Full Brother's The Movie with Mark Wahlberg. Tyreese I love that movie. And I was just like, Oh man, I got to have action all over.

00;50;20;12 - 00;50;36;28
James Watkins
And I remember writing this story, sending it to my professor, and the first thing my professional professors say was this too plot driven. And I remember saying, What do you mean by that? And she was like, Yeah, everything is just happening for the sake of the plot. Why does your character move it from point A to point B?

00;50;36;29 - 00;50;54;29
James Watkins
What's their motivation? Why should I care about their journey? And that was a foreign concept to me at the time, because at the time I was just impressed by the action. I just by, you know, and I say, Have you seen four brothers? You see how this happens? Crazy. She was like a supply driver. We need to invest in the characters.

00;50;55;09 - 00;51;22;06
James Watkins
And that was something that had really stuck with me. So I take when I come up with a character idea, I do personality tests for them. I ask questions from their perspective. I'll even spend a day in their mind and I and I won't even this is where I say creators are a little bit off. I will go a day or two without speaking to anyone and just imagining myself as this person.

00;51;22;06 - 00;51;49;00
James Watkins
They're really trying to embrace who they are because I can't write you if I don't understand your motivation, if I don't understand your childhood, if I don't understand your experiences, and these are things that would never make it on a page, but if it's really good, right? And then quality writing those podcasts that I told you I listen to, to analyze those stories and those characters, they'll be able to pick up on it and I try to do that's what I think makes a really good story.

00;51;50;08 - 00;52;09;10
Rob Lee
That makes sense. That makes sense. And, you know, before I move into this, this last real question, I think, yeah, even even with some of the things that you referenced, like, you know, get your Heisenberg on, you know, you mentioned Jon Snow, you mentioned Martin. Those are the characters that that are there or what have you. And they stick out.

00;52;09;10 - 00;52;21;03
Rob Lee
It's not like you said. Yeah. You know, so Jamey, you know, they went home, you know I'm here with Jon or you know, it's not like you're saying, you know, Aaron Paul's character or what have you, you know, it's, you know, it's sort of sort of the Heisenberg Energy.

00;52;21;15 - 00;52;24;03
James Watkins
But you know what's crazy? Jamey is one of my favorite characters.

00;52;24;24 - 00;52;31;27
Rob Lee
We we may have the, you know, a side podcast on high, maybe something like that because look, I got thoughts.

00;52;32;09 - 00;52;33;24
James Watkins
Jamie is one of my favorites.

00;52;33;24 - 00;52;54;07
Rob Lee
All I know is my guy had a flame sword because I'm a child of the eighties. It's like I want one iPad flame. So I felt zombies killing walkers, as it were. That's where we go. Lastly, this is sort of the the combination and we're we're around it and we're all kind of like, you know, sort of close out on this real one, this real question.

00;52;54;07 - 00;52;58;29
Rob Lee
Looking ahead, pie in the sky manifestation. What's the big dream you're chasing?

00;52;59;17 - 00;53;30;02
James Watkins
Are one or two character driven stories on a major platform? Yes, I'm looking at you, HBO. So if you happen to stumble on this, give a brother to go. I'll be send you my page that I want to tell these character driven stories. You know, the two concepts that I have are based in DC, you know, because I want to show a side of DC that has been ignored for so long, and I want to create something that outlives me.

00;53;30;02 - 00;53;55;06
James Watkins
And I don't say that in a morbid sense. I say that as in, I want people to be able to watch what I create and they don't know who I am or care who I am, but that inspires them to do something. My story, I hope, inspires people to say it is possible coming from Southeast DC and making a name for yourself for the right reasons.

00;53;55;06 - 00;54;19;25
James Watkins
And I want to be able to open the doors for for a lot of my, my peers and a lot of my friends and colleagues who are talented and creative, I already have this in my mind. You know, again, I don't have control over anything because I don't have a writer's credit. But it's just like once I get my foot in the door every year, I want to bring at least two or three people that I know that's ready for that moment and put them in a position so that they can feed their families and that they can live their dreams.

00;54;19;25 - 00;54;41;15
James Watkins
I just want to be the vehicle for people to live their dreams. Nipsey Hussle had a quote that's actually not his quote. He got it from I think was also somebody he said, you measure success, success is measured by how many people you bless. And I truly believe that. And that's how I want to operate. I'm not doing it just for me.

00;54;41;15 - 00;55;03;17
James Watkins
It's bigger than me, honestly. And I'm not saying that again. I don't like cliches, but I really feel like I know a lot of talented people. I know a lot of people that can make a tremendous impact in writing music, and I just want to support them. And I know in order to do that, I have to put myself in a position where I can make an opportunity for myself.

00;55;03;17 - 00;55;09;17
James Watkins
And once I do that, I'm a reach back out. I'm all I'm always. D.C. It's not that I'm I'm sorry.

00;55;10;25 - 00;55;25;00
Rob Lee
I feel the same in Baltimore, but I feel the same way in doing this is like, you know, I, you know, I, you know, it's not completely altruistic, whereas it's like, yeah, I want the credit when somebody is like, Oh, so who's doing this thing? No, no, I like, you don't know me.

00;55;25;04 - 00;55;25;19
James Watkins
You're right.

00;55;26;14 - 00;55;37;21
Rob Lee
You know, it's just like it's it's not me. I'm very reluctant to, you know, put my my image, you know, like the image behind me or what have you. I had an artist that I interviewed do this.

00;55;37;28 - 00;55;38;09
James Watkins
Who.

00;55;38;09 - 00;55;57;17
Rob Lee
Which replaced the previous one that an artist that I interview did is just me kind of going back. It's not like, Hey, I'm going to fiber and put together something. It's like work within that community showcase, highlight that that work or what have you. And you know, that's why I tell people, leave a review, you know, leave a reading it.

00;55;57;18 - 00;56;18;02
Rob Lee
It helps that they get discovered. It's not for me. I'm not sitting here saying, hey, there's 750 episodes of me. Talk about how great I am in my work. But if I'm helping to facilitate a conversation with someone like you who has interesting story, who has an interesting approach, and that can help get more eyes and ears on what you're doing, that's that's the reward for me.

00;56;18;12 - 00;56;37;02
Rob Lee
And, yeah, that's that's really what it is, you know, just trying to be that sort of people's champion kind of guy. So that's sort of it for the real questions. That's starting to get a little get a little off since she's at Creative though. So as I said, you know, because I say to everyone, don't overthink these. I got.

00;56;38;13 - 00;56;39;15
James Watkins
Five rapid fire.

00;56;39;15 - 00;56;41;12
Rob Lee
Questions I've added to it as we've talking.

00;56;41;25 - 00;56;45;08
James Watkins
Okay. I hope it's a Tony Soprano question in there, but.

00;56;46;06 - 00;56;46;28
Rob Lee
There is not.

00;56;47;07 - 00;56;47;23
James Watkins
There is no.

00;56;48;14 - 00;56;54;12
Rob Lee
And I'm going to go with the the sort of easy one and only think of one item here.

00;56;54;26 - 00;56;55;07
James Watkins
Okay.

00;56;55;26 - 00;57;03;14
Rob Lee
What is your Heisenberg fit because you know, you when he puts the hat on in the glasses, that's really what he's Heisenberg. So what is your Heisenberg.

00;57;03;23 - 00;57;27;12
James Watkins
That when I put on the black Washington Nationals hoodie that that when I put on a black Washington Nationals hat and a hoodie was like one of my favorite shows on it. Like, I walk around with this waystar royco hoodie that I get a lot of feedback on a state and a lot of people stop me on the street and say, I love that show.

00;57;27;28 - 00;57;38;24
James Watkins
Or I have like the wire hoodie. So when I have that all with the black nationalist hat combination, I feel untouchable.

00;57;38;24 - 00;57;53;03
Rob Lee
If it if it was to be one thing, what is the hardest part of the artist's life? Because it's not just, hey, turn us on, turn us off. It's like, no, I can't. Painter is like the Miles Davis thing. Is music always going on in my head, right? So what's the hardest part of the artist's life for you?

00;57;54;05 - 00;58;21;29
James Watkins
Forcing yourself to make a living while you try to pursue your creative dreams, but also having to work a 9 to 5 when you know it may not be something that you enjoy. That's why I do nonprofits because it is and not five but it's something that I'm is mission driven work but having to be an adult do adult things an adult have adult responsibilities while still trying to pursue your dream isn't yet.

00;58;22;28 - 00;58;37;21
Rob Lee
All right. This one is this one is funny. Okay. Martin to Game of Thrones, what job would Tommy have in Game of Thrones? I thought you like that.

00;58;39;09 - 00;58;42;19
James Watkins
What job would Tommy have in Game of Thrones?

00;58;43;01 - 00;58;45;24
Rob Lee
The notoriously questionably employed Tommy?

00;58;46;06 - 00;59;10;10
James Watkins
I am dazzled by your question when you think about this real quick. I know you said I don't overthink it would start with Tommy have on Game of Thrones I ain't gonna hold you. I feel like Tommy might be at the wall Tommy I'd be at the wall. He might end up jizz Oh, no feed in Master Amy because he won't want to do no no work.

00;59;10;20 - 00;59;13;07
James Watkins
That's fantastic. All right.

00;59;13;13 - 00;59;22;29
Rob Lee
This is this is this is the penultimate sort of rapid fire question. This one goes it's very simple. I referenced this earlier. Slats are drums.

00;59;23;29 - 00;59;24;15
James Watkins
Drums.

00;59;25;09 - 00;59;32;21
Rob Lee
So you get it. This is this is why we're boys a flat. I'm like, yo, I got to delete this interview. This is we're out of here. You know.

00;59;33;02 - 00;59;37;14
James Watkins
I don't understand this obsession, you know, but do you it drums.

00;59;38;13 - 00;59;41;14
Rob Lee
I mean, drums. Black people like percussion.

00;59;41;14 - 00;59;45;06
James Watkins
It just it just works.

00;59;46;00 - 01;00;06;07
Rob Lee
All right. So this is the last one. This one has a little bit more thoughtful, but because you're a DC culture guy, you'll be able to answer this. And we're looking for that sort of the next level, not the typical, hey, you go here, you get the, you know, mascot president thing. So you're being a tour guide for someone in a scenario and visiting DC for a long weekend, three days.

01;00;07;04 - 01;00;09;28
Rob Lee
They want the authentic experience. Tell me three things that you got to do.

01;00;10;28 - 01;00;11;16
James Watkins
And.

01;00;13;01 - 01;00;17;25
Rob Lee
That you would do. Like not saying, Oh, you may get to you like, No, I do this. You'll probably see me here, bro.

01;00;19;08 - 01;00;49;18
James Watkins
So really, really go going. Wow. Three things. The first thing I would do, I would take I would take somebody I would take somebody to a real curry out with real mumbo sauce. I know like a lot of restaurants, they have mumbo sauce on a menu and I avoid that every time because it's not legit. The Chinese restaurants they used to be in, like Chinatown, I don't know.

01;00;49;19 - 01;01;11;10
James Watkins
They said it wasn't that good. You got to go into a hole in the wall joints, the ones that probably failed health inspection. So I take I take them there. And I actually took a friend there and put them on a mobile sauce and they loved it. It was the second thing I do definitely. I probably do a I Love show, so I'll probably do a show.

01;01;11;11 - 01;01;23;22
James Watkins
I probably like the how with theater, which is funny, quick, funny story. I went to the Howard Theater last week and people were fighting and I was like, yes, as one.

01;01;23;24 - 01;01;25;28
Rob Lee
Who yes is the other show.

01;01;25;28 - 01;01;30;05
James Watkins
I was like, yes, I low key live for ghetto shit as long as nobody gets stabbed or shot.

01;01;30;26 - 01;01;32;06
Rob Lee
Make the jab sick, touching.

01;01;32;25 - 01;02;01;28
James Watkins
And so I probably would take them to a show at the Howard Theater. And most at third thing, I'll probably I'll probably connect them with somebody that's doing work in the humanities and they can learn about the culture or the neighborhood that they're working on. We got a lot of people I've been meeting, a lot of people that have been telling oral histories and stories of different neighborhoods.

01;02;02;04 - 01;02;38;07
James Watkins
And I always thought it was really cool because it's like people come to a neighborhood and it's gentrified, so it's like you don't get the true rich history behind that neighborhood, or they may have a negative reputation for for whatever reason, but it's really history and significance behind that. So I probably would connect with one of my colleagues to learn more about the neighborhood that there ain't no no you street black Broadway what is you know berry farms you know the Anacostia you know places like that so.

01;02;39;00 - 01;02;51;21
Rob Lee
That's rich it's and I think that's important. And again, you know, it's the hive mind thing here. You know, it's just like you'll get some culture, you'll get some food, you know, see some stuff I'm into, you know, see the show. I'm trying to go to to show you Pam. I'm trying go to the show. So you know what that is.

01;02;52;23 - 01;02;58;13
James Watkins
I probably do that. And and I needed some of that. You know, when I have friends visit, you know, I do some of that.

01;02;58;13 - 01;03;12;02
Rob Lee
Yeah. I mean, when I got this reputation, I have, you know, my partners, nephews, they live in D.C. and they look at me as the culture guy is I, you know, so where are we going? And it's not even just like Baltimore is like, yo, where are we going to D.C.? I was like, I don't live down there where we're going.

01;03;12;03 - 01;03;23;21
Rob Lee
Typically, I don't live up there. It's like, but you know, like ten places I was like, this is true. And it just speaks to one trust, but also it speaks to like having exquisite taste. And this is where you and I intersect, bro.

01;03;24;03 - 01;03;24;25
James Watkins
Right? Right.

01;03;25;26 - 01;03;42;19
Rob Lee
Two things I want to do as we wrap up here. One, I want to thank you for coming on to the podcast and, you know, chopping it out with me. This is a good way to wrap up an afternoon. And two, I want to invite and encourage you to share with the listeners where they can check you out, check out your work and the website, social media, all of that good stuff.

01;03;42;24 - 01;03;43;27
Rob Lee
The floor is yours.

01;03;44;09 - 01;04;16;29
James Watkins
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity, man, I. I wouldn't miss it for the world. You can find me on Twitter or x instagram. Jimmy Watts music. So that's two to tease waits music. What else? My work. You can look up. Well, you're going to put the queen bees link in there. Yeah. Yeah. So check out, if you can, a couple of videos from Queen Bee says Be easy, don't copyright me.

01;04;16;29 - 01;04;40;08
James Watkins
Beyonce. I love you. Do you can check out life guard home run shades monster. We have a plethora of videos on here you can really find me on Instagram and Twitter Jimmy Watts music and hopefully hopefully this isn't the last time we connect. Hopefully I can come back with some more updates.

01;04;40;08 - 01;05;02;26
Rob Lee
I love that. And there you have it, folks. I want to again thank James, Jimmy, James Watkins for coming on to the podcast. And I'm Rob Lee, saying that there's art, culture and community in and around your neck of the woods. You've just got to look for it.